Category talk:Shetland Shipwrecks/Archive Page 1

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Islandhopper, that link leads to nothing ...???

Oddrun 15:57, 5 March 2007 (MST)


Dear, you are to quick!;-) Look now ... :-))) Islandhopper 16:18, 5 March 2007 (MST)

I've been looking !!! GREAT !!

Cheers , Oddrun 16:23, 5 March 2007 (MST)

Technical difficulties?!?

I moved the page 'Snafell' lock stock and barrel to one titled 'Snaefell', deleted the page titled 'Snafell', and amended the spelling in the note in the relevant year. However, the category link here hasn't changed to reflect that, it's still reading 'Snafell', and still leads to the page of that name, which obviously no longer exists.

The "odd" thing is, all the history logs for the 'Snafell' link show up as 'Snaefell', even though it would have been 'Snafell' during all of those, it's only the final version of the page which should read 'Snaefell' that's keeping the former 'Snafell' spelling. If anyone followed that....

Any suggestions on a fix? Thanks.

^^^ Forgot to sign that. Ghostrider 07:25, 13 July 2007 (MDT)

I do have the correct spelling in the catpage ... I think you puter is loading the site from the cache ... clear browser cache and look again ... should be ok. That other thing: you moved the page ... that includes its history which is now (completely) shown under the new title ... that's ok. In case you would try a rollback the old page with the older parts of its history would appear under the old title again ... Islandhopper 07:53, 13 July 2007 (MDT)

Thanks Islandhopper, I did that and it's coming up right now. I had refreshed the page a few times before posting the question, as that usually is enough to bring up the most recent version. Or, it did with 98se, this though is XP, so it's a whole other beast.

Ghostrider 08:34, 13 July 2007 (MDT)

Contents

Swan 1799

Anybody know anything more about this one:
http://www.rcahms.gov.uk/pls/portal/newcanmore.newcandig_details_gis?inumlink=237843
None of the place names mentioned appear on the maps I have. The position given would be somewhere near Westing.
Robbie 10:46, 23 July 2007 (MDT)


IF Bicht of Sluggins = Sluggins or Stuggins (difficult to decide due to reproduction quality)
and
IF Ayre of Newguard = Beach of Newgarth
and
IF Maratshonel = Marrats-houll
THEN I got it ... :-)))) ... its all on the 1:10560 OS 1882 map
Go to Ordnance Survey "Get a Map" and search for HP573062 - you should find Newgord in the centre. Beach of Newgarth is the coastal strip / beach opposite Brough Holm, Slugging/Stuggins is the rocky shore to the north of the beach (where there is that blue spot for a bigger "rockpool", and Marrats-houll is an old farm steading at the end of the footpath leading from the Westing road close to the cost.
Go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk , best to search for Haroldswick and the pan southwest until you reach the area to see what is on the map ... ;-))) Islandhopper 15:35, 23 July 2007 (MDT)

Thanks Islandhopper.
That looks like a 100% match :-)
That RCAHMS site is rather poor when it comes to place names, especially the spelling.
I hadn't seen that old-maps site before, but I have it marked as a favourite now.:-))))
Robbie 21:25, 23 July 2007 (MDT)

Hambro??

@Islandhopper. Re: the page for the 'Elvira', RCAHMS gives her as en route from Hambro to Jamaica. How likely is it that 'Hambro' is actually Hamburg? I ask, as I'm reading about another ship in this Wreck Index book, and the actual index entry states.... "Resolution", of Hamburg, and in passage from Hamburg to New Orleans.... However, in the accompanying notes, there is a transcribed extract from Lloyd's List of the time, which states as follows.... "Resolution", of and from Hambro, laden with linen etc....

Ghostrider 18:10, 25 July 2007 (MDT)

Sorry, Ghostrider, I missed your question. You are right, in this case it is most probably Hamburg. Hambro was used in the 18th century to address Hamburg, although nobody knows for sure how it came to this name. It is very likely that it was derived from the dialect spoken by the Serafin Jews, Jews of Portugese origin settling in Hamburg since the 15th/16th century and it was actually used by a small and very specific part of the Hamburg people only, esp. by the intelligentia and / or the economia with either a Jewish and/or masonic background: Philosophers, doctors, bankers etc. One of the best known example you will find here, the author a friend of Goethe and teacher to the Humboldt brothers ... ;-)
Despite that there must have been a village called Hambro on the river Crouch, Essex, with access to the North Sea, but the Resolution is a well known ship from Hamburg. Not that sure for the Elvira in the moment, but I'll try to find it out. Islandhopper 16:38, 27 July 2007 (MDT)
That's the Resolution of Hamburg which I have based on different source. The note "a Danish vessel" in the quote from the Marine List may refer i) to the captain (Holm could be a Danish name) and/or ii) the load of "bricks" most probably taken over in one of the then Danish ports of Altona or Glücksburg (down the river Elbe); it was the peak season for brick exports from Holsatia (then Danish) to the UK, UK dominions &c Islandhopper 17:02, 27 July 2007 (MDT)
Now, I see, Whitacker has the Elvira as registered in Halifax but her cargo of flour & butter fits very well with Hambro = Hamburg than the main port for the export of agricultural products from its hinterland in Mecklemburg to the east of Hamburg. Islandhopper 17:10, 27 July 2007 (MDT)

Thanks for that Islandhopper, on the face of it Hambro = Hamburg did seem very likely, but I felt it best to get a second opinion from someone who has first hand knowledge of the country and it's history. As you say, local knowledge wins out every time. Written official records are fine and well, but they can only be as good as the person that created them.

Concerning the 'Resolution', if I'm reading that RCAHMS entry correctly, the Danish reference pertains to an entirely seperate ship. I've cross-referenced RCAHMS with Larne & Larne, and apparently there was an unidentified Danish registered, wooden hulled vessel, carrying timber wrecked on Whalsay on February 27th, with all hands lost. The 'Resolution' was wrecked on Unst the next day, February 28th, so both ships appear on the same Lloyd's entry of March 4th. RCAHMS have simply quoted the entire entry for that day with both ships, on the 'Resolution' page, not just the part that applied to the 'Resolution' herself.

Ghostrider 18:17, 27 July 2007 (MDT)

General note on RCAHMS

Have you noticed? RCAHMS has again added a lot of information since May 2007 questioning either their own original locations or those of Whitacker (incl. his classifications). The big mass is, they do only check the 1999 OS map. Example: For the Elvira they state The location assigned to this record is essentially tentative. The North Geo of Noss is not noted as such on the 1999 edition of the OS 1:50,000 map. Well, that's right but it is clearly shown on the 1881 OS map ... provided you know for which Noss you have to search that's to say you arenot searchin Noss Isle but the coast of Noss in Dunrossness :-))). Suggestions: If we have cleared 5 or 6 probs we should send them a note from Shetlopedia how to use the proper map and / or local knowledge ... :-))) Islandhopper 17:37, 27 July 2007 (MDT)

I'd just this moment realised the RCAHMS site is as much of a "work in progress" as ours. :)) I'd opened their page for 'Elvira' via your link, and saw right away that that quote from the 'John O'Groats Journal' has been added to it since I was there previously, and made the entry here for the 'Elvira'.
A 1:50,000 map is quite poor in detail for a place like Shetland, especially the coast, emphasis seems to be made on modern mapping of settlements and "visitor attractions". For historic work they would be doing themselves a big favour to use larger scale and older mapping, the 1881 ones are excellent. There are a couple of 1881 map sheets of Scousburgh in the house somewhere, and quite literally everything is correctly named.
It is very tempting to get in touch with them, and tell them where they're getting it all wrong. :)))) They could so very easily be doing a much better job and providing a far superior service if they would just use what is avaialble out there to help them.
Ghostrider 18:17, 27 July 2007 (MDT)


Well, to be fair we have to acknowledge that they are not wrong or poor that much. And they have done a marvellous job over the last two centuries providing the best register of antiquities of the world. The prob is that they are just a register gathering and keeping what's reported. That's there primary job ;-) and all the probs we may have are due to the sources (individuals and authorities, newspaper and other registers &c) which made those reports. That's to say: When a captain, or LLoyds, or the Admiralty reported that a ship was wrecked at XXX they have to keep that record and can't say it was the place YYY - unless there is a more exact report explaining the hows and whys. Nevertheless there are mistakes, some quite obvious, some less and they should be corrected at the best of knowledge base and that's most probably why they are working on details from time to time with only little resources. Islandhopper 01:46, 28 July 2007 (MDT)

I have no doubt that they would welcome input from Shetlopedia.
Although they might be reluctant to accept any position information which might contradict Admiralty reports, they should, if they are sensible, welcome corrections to place names, especially where it could be shown that a place name they have quoted is either mis-spelled or is 'now called' something different.
In some ways it is only fair that if we are using their information, we should repay the compliment by contributing to their information.
Robbie 02:24, 28 July 2007 (MDT)
Found that by chance which explains why RCAHMS started to work ob wrecks in May 2007 *ROFL* They just record what other "authorities" report - right or wrong *ROLFL* Islandhopper 03:31, 28 July 2007 (MDT)

Barges/Hulks - Shipwrecks, or not?

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions. The records are casting up one or two barges, varying from the bigger one that went on Bressay that had been transporting a rig jacket, to one that had been supporting ordnance disposal sometime round 1900 (I think). Also, hulks, coal hulks and such, there's a few of them cropping up which sprang a leak and sank, or dragged anchor/broke moorings in gales and drove ashore as wrecks.

I can't decide whether these should be included in the list, or not. Technically they are a sort of 'ship', and they mostly all have a 'name' of some sort but they're not what most folks think of as a ship. From a divers point of view I would suppose they are as interesting as any other 'vessel' though.

Ghostrider 11:22, 29 July 2007 (MDT)

This thought had already swittled around my braincell a few times. Most recently when I was thinking about the sea angling. Anglers are just as attracted to wrecks as divers are. So yes I think they should be included.
The coal hulks bring back memories of boats using scallop dregs in the north harbour to dredge up coal from an old hulk.. :-)
Robbie 11:31, 29 July 2007 (MDT)

I've begun to add them in as I trip over them. Right enough, the information has different uses to different people, it's often all too easy to forget that, and of the need to think outside the box. Being mainly a wrack man, once it sinks, it's not much use to me, but it's only then that diving and fishing interests take over.

That old coal is good stuff, or so I heard some years back about some that divers took up from someplace round the harbour, far, far superior to what a certain local merchant of the day was selling seemed to be the unanimous opinion.

Ghostrider 16:11, 29 July 2007 (MDT)

Hanseatic Wrecks

I have talked to a friend who is more familiar with that than I'am. He promised to go threw the registers and check the entries. It may take some time but the best to spare working capacity it may be to leave out to add Hanseatic wrecks from the 14th to 17th century ... ;-) Islandhopper 17:54, 2 August 2007 (MDT)


While looking for details of a friend's genealogy, I have found that one of her forebears died at the 'Hogo Baas Shipwreck', which occured on 7th May 1814. The timeline has no mention of this event and I have no idea what vessel was involved. The Hogo Baas are to the east of Whalsay, close to Grif Skerry. Any one have any info regarding this ?
Heimdal 17:09, 20 August 2007 (MDT)

Nothing coming up in either Larn & Larn or RCAHMS I'm afraid, nearest Whalsay wrecks are one in 1810 or 1811, and two in 1817.
Ghostrider 17:56, 20 August 2007 (MDT)

May have found her, place(s) and date(s) almost right....

......

Weichsell: Heoga Baa, North Sea (Alt: Wieschel; Wieshoul; Lerwick)

.....

Weishoul: [max. date] 1817 250 tons [gross]. On voyage to Berwick from Bucklush New Brunswick, timber laden. Only 2 crew saved, William Turnbull, mate being one. Archive Ref: "CE 85/1/5 - 3/11/1817 Source: Shetland Archive Service MS/3025, no. 454.

......

The WEICHSELL, Detloff, of and from Dantzig [Gdansk] to Liverpool, struck on a rock near Lerwick, on 6th instant, and sunk in about 25 fathoms of water. Crew saved. Source: The Marine List, LL, No. 5180, London, Tuesday May 27 1817. NMRS, MS/829/70 (no. 5916).


......

(Classified as brig, with cargo of wheat and barley: date of loss cited as 6 May 1815). Wieschel, or possibly Wieshoul: this vessel struck Heoga Baa, 5 miles E of Whalsay, and sank. Capt. Dettlef. Registration: Dantzig [Gdansk]. Built 1811. 329 tons burthen. (Location of loss cited as N60 20 W0 45). I G Whittaker 1998.

......

I don't know what to make of it though. RCAHMS have those three records down as all being the same ship, yet reading through, the details are so at odds with each other it could easily be three different ships....

Ghostrider 18:19, 20 August 2007 (MDT)

Bet a fiver that there are 2 different vessels. "Weichsel" would perfectly fit for the boat from Dantzig as would the capt's name and the cargo of wheat and barley - with "Wieschel" probably a spelling mistake. The second boat is the "Weishoul". Note first of all the different records about the crews: all but two lost vs. all saved. Islandhopper 00:51, 21 August 2007 (MDT)

New link table and directory pages.

Well that's it sorted, apart from checking and correcting.
I noticed, when I was checking the WWI wrecks in 'Years', that we have details of a lot of sinkings, both by enemy action, and presumably where that is not mentioned, by accident.
Perhaps the wrecks and sinkings in the Years should all have pages and be included in the wrecks category...????
I'll try to keep an eye out for any new wrecks which are added, and allocate them to the various directory pages.
Some of the directory pages will likely be able to be split once they get big enough, but I think the ones I have used will do for a start.
Cheers,
Robbie 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)

@Robbie, Scalloway wrecks. Where to add them in the link table? The Union I've just listed met her fate in da Aest Voe. I'm thinking along with Burra is probably the most appropriate. We don't seem to have had any Scalloway ones before to take a lead from, and I doubt there'll be enough to justify a link in their own right. RCAHMS list 16 total, but it's likely to be less than that as for several Scalloway is in the secondary location(s) details.
Whit tinks du? Bit be dun wi raeflin wi bawnds an burrips first.
Ghostrider 13:58, 30 August 2007 (MDT)

Yup, I knew one would come up for Scalloway eventually. ;-)
I originally meant to make the page Scalloway, Trondra, and Burra area,. But there were only ones for Burra.
So bung her in there and I'll alter the page and links at the weekend.
There will always have to be alterations like this to get things right, that's the fun of wrecks, they just ahppen where they please. ;-)
Robbie 14:34, 30 August 2007 (MDT)

Marion Chilcott

Anyone have any info on this vessel ? I seem to remember Joe Kay writing an article in 'Sea Breezes' about her some years ago. USA owned, and Whalsay men got some sort of recognition from the American President for saving the crew.
Heimdal 16:34, 10 October 2007 (MDT)

I've heard that name someplace before, but can't remember where. That said, a quick trip through Google and you find that there have been several ships of the name, in the UK, US, Australia and New Zealand and one time or another, so could well be I came across one of the "other" ones previously. Nothing showing up in RCAHMS or Larn & Larn anyway, but the magazine article is right enough, this came up on Google too among a biblography of 'Sea Breezes' articles:
"Kay, Joseph: Adventures of the Marion Chilcott. Sea Breezes Vol. 73, Liverpool, 1999. pp 16-18, ill."
I wonder if anybody has back numbers kept?
Ghostrider 17:23, 10 October 2007 (MDT)

"sv KILBRANNANbuilt by Russell & Co Port Glasgow, Yard No 52 Last Name: MARION CHILCOTT (1887) Propulsion: Sail 3 Masts Launched: Thursday, 11/11/1982 Built: 1882 Ship Type: Full Rigged Sailing Vessel Tonnage: 1634t Owner History: Kerr Newton & Co Status: Scrapped - 1933

Remarks: 1896 stranded, repaired and renamed MARION CHILCOTT in 1887 1900 became part of the Matson's Fleet 1910 sold to Associated Oil 1927 used as a barge in Trinidad 1933 beached and broken up "

http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=17439

OR.....

"MARION CHILCOTT, 1737 ton iron ship, built, Port Glasgow, Scotland, 1882 as KILBRANNAN. Aground at Point Wilson, Wash., 1896, repaired as MARION CHILCOIT. Bought by Matson 1900, converted to oil ranker, sold to Associated Oil 1910. Sailed as Trinidad molasses carrier c. 1923, used there as barge until 1940s."

http://www.usmm.org/matson.html

Ghostrider 00:51, 16 January 2012 (MST)

Statistics

Just thought it was worth noting that the Shipwrecks Category has made it into the Top Ten. (Under the statistics link at the top of the main page).
3700 views.
Not bad,,, when you match that against the Music Category, with 746 views, or the Football Category, with 181 views..
Guess what is more interesting to Shetlanders.. ;-)))))
Robbie 10:16, 15 January 2008 (MST)

Any idea why so many recent hits, about a 1000 of those have been in the last month, when I was last adding entries just before Christmas the total was running in the 2600/2700 area.
There's still a significant number of wrecks to add, and the apprarent level of interest makes it all the more urgent to do. I should have a bit more time by the weekend to get back to it now and again though I think. There's been no peace since the New Year, but this week it seems like things are settling back down to nearer normal.
Ghostrider 11:17, 15 January 2008 (MST)

No Idea,, Yet.
I'm just finding my way around these statistics from Google, so may find a clue there. Some of the info needs to be looked at from several angles, before you get to the facts.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that the wording in certain pages creates a direct match for a logical search in Google. Such as has happened with the TV & Radio Frequencies, which in less than 3 months, has gone to (current position, popular page 123, with 809 views).
Purely on initial findings, from looking at pages which have a high hit rate from Google, it would appear that certain phrasing, as opposed to individual words, can directly affect search results. But perhaps that is caused by advanced searches in Google, where an exact phrase is specified...
I'll keep digging. ;-)
Robbie 12:07, 15 January 2008 (MST)

Redder de as me. Analysing statistics is about the surest way of making me go cross eyed and get a thumping sore head I know of.
I just took a look back over which wrecks got added druing December, names include one or more of the following: Sovereign, Resolution, Lord Wellington, King George, Earl Spencer, Providence, Camperdown, Columbus, Atlas, George Washington. All terms that probably have numerous searches run on them for multiple reasons. I wonder if we're getting folk who've searched for the name for another reason, seeing Shetlopedia in the results and clicking through out of curiosity. Probably nothing quite so simple as that though, as I'd be pretty sure there were some similar names in there before, that weren't having such a marked effect on hits. It would be good to find out though, as whatever has made the hits rise so quickly this last month is worth capitalising on.
EDIT: Wreck page now at 4099 views. 400 in 10 hours?? Is yun coontir ta be believed?
Ghostrider 20:38, 15 January 2008 (MST)

Simple answer. That counter has a life of its own. But to to use a phrase from Star Trek, "Not life as we know it". ;-)
The numbers just don't add up for some reason. Although the place for Shipwrecks in the league table was correct, as of last night. But to me statistics is nearly as good as sex,,, I said nearly,,, so I'll continue to monitor it, and I'll find an answer eventually.. :-)))
However, one statistic you'll be amazed by. Of 143 visitors to the site so far today, 84 were from Canada, averaging 1.14 pages per visit. Somebody must have posted a link to a Shetlopedia page which is interesting to Canadians. Maybe a wreck.. ;-)
Wan idder peerie statistic dat'll make de lauch. Ony time dat we scrive a lok o sharn upö da talk pages i da midder tongue, fok start searchin fur da wirds.. :-))))
Robbie 08:14, 16 January 2008 (MST)

Weird!....I can't imagine what Canadians in particular would find so interesting, but it would be very interesting to find out.
I doot we laeve dem wi a lok a hed clawin sum daes wi whit we rite. ;-))))
Hit can onlee be gud tho, git fok mair interestit an mebbe send dem ower ta da Shetlin Dictionary fur a start.
Ghostrider 09:40, 16 January 2008 (MST)

Ower Fower Hunder :-)

Yun's da wrecks weel ower da fower hunder noo.
Weel dön Ghostrider.
Foo mony mair hunder tinks du will dir be?
Ony skipper luikin trow dis lok buist be fairt ta sail atil Shetlan waters noo ;-)
Robbie 10:24, 25 January 2008 (MST)

Da wye hits gyawn, hit cud weel end ower da thoosan....shurly no, bit dere'll be twatree hunder yit onywye. I wis hoopin dat Larn's book wid hae da maist a dem, bit far fae it, dir mebbe as mony igyen. Da eens fae da book ir maistly aw up noo, aless da eens fae da twa wars, bit whin you search place nems, hit's juist den it you fin foo monny really ir.
I tocht I wid duh ee sun-gaets sweep arood takkin in aw da peerier isles, den duh anodder een alang the banks, Papa an da Ve Skerries I tink ir dun, an noo Im rinklin among da Foula ebb stanes. I wis tinkin eence I hae Foula led upoa his skelf, den mebbe doin da Bourbon Dolphin wid be da neest afore teklin da nort isles.
Im pittin a mention idda unkent eens upoa da yeer pages is I cum ta dem, I tink dey hae is muckle richt o a mention is da rest. Haen a gret lang list a 'Unknown's' upoa da Category page seems kinda fuilish, an I canna see muckle idder wye a doin dem aless upoa the yeers.
Ony Skipper wid duh weel ta keep a wadder ee upoa dis list, and upoa fu far he's bides aff idda banks tuh, ;-) Shetland is no kent is the "Ship's Graveyard" fur naethin. Hit is a goadliss fleet oh it tho fur sic a peerie place. Laek day sae aboot da Kirkyaurd, if dey aw raise it wance, you widna be able ta muve fur dem.

[Edit] I startin ta tink yun thoosan is mebbe no sae far rang efter aw....I juist did a seekin fur Yall an hit cam bak wi da maist o 150....we only hae 21 a dem doon is yit....

Im tinkin im maistly dun wi Foula noo, aless fur yun een we spak aboot afore. We wid mebbe need ta try an figgir oot whidder hit's ee boat ur twa, Isbister's story caad her da Sarah, an aw RCAHMS haes is da Ceres, an da Foola fok's history site caas her sumthin idder. Hits kinda a bit o a bruk ta peck trow ta try an ken da richt wye o.

Ghostrider 12:29, 25 January 2008 (MST)

Links to inshore waters etc..

Ghostrider,
Thanks for all the hard work you're doing adding the wreck links. It's a bugger of a job, but it makes great use of the internal link system.
I'm thinking of ways to improve the Lerwick Harbour page, and as there are many wrecks there, any suggestions would be appreciated.
BTW. Did you notice the link I added to the Consolation, for the Shetland life article. It was a very interesting and, I thought, very well written article... Sadly the link isn't behaving tonight, I think half the web has gone 'yudders i da lift' tonight ;-)
Cheers
Robbie 16:05, 4 August 2008 (MDT)

It's getting there. Its been more time consuming than I expected, but a session of maybe two yet should see the most of what's still left more or less done with. A much easier job to do though than untangling Calamity's adventures, that's for sure. ;-)
The harbour isn't going to be the easiest to figure out how best to lay out, so much of it has been different things at different times in history that what would be a good break off point for one era doesn't fit well with an earlier or later usage pattern. I suppose the logical way, from a wrecks point of view anyway, would be probably to have different sub-sections on the page for the mainland shore, the Bressay shore, and maybe for north and south halves of the waters as well. The problem with many of the records is that they're so vague you can only place the wreck "somewhere" within the harbour limits, but even so there's so many of them in that bit of water that there would still be a sizeable list within each section of those who have precise enough locations in the records, the vaguer ones would just have to stay within the overview part of the page. I did quick searches in RCAHMS for "Lerwick Harbour" and "Bressay Sound" and both came back with well over 100 hits, so there's probably around 100+ that will eventually be on pages relating to the harbour. The vast majority of them still have to be added, Larn's book obviously isn't very comprehensive when you start digging, so now would be a good time to sort out the harbour page, so that they can go on it where they can hopefully stay for a while.
Something that's come to light while I've been digging around looking for the assortment of wicks, firths, bays, voes and whatnot for wrecks, is that while the pages for them in the "Inshore Waters" category have links back to any settlements on the shores of them and/or share the same name, very few of those self same settlements have links to the pages of the inshore waters that they'r eon the shore of and/or share a name with. Maybe its just my brain that's wired different, but for example last night with Hamna Voe in Burra, I knew there were several Hamna Voes in Shetland, and had no idea how the Burra one would be titled to search for it, so put in "Hamnavoe" which I was pretty sure would lead me to the right place, but once there it was no help as it had no link to the water it lies next to. I hit the same problem with going to the Symbister page hoping it would lead me on to the North Voe of Symbister, so I presume its common to a number of settlement pages.
The link for the Shetland Life story for the Consolation is probably the sole reason I've been aware of it. I don't usually buy the paper copy, and have often found the links left on Shetlink to not work very well, so rarely ever see what's in it.
Its well done, Charlie Simpson usually does a good thorough job researching whatever he writes, and he has a style of presenting things that makes them interesting to read. Its a good story too, I daresay quite a few other wrecks that are just standing very innocently with the bare details in the pages just now could well tell a tale or two too. Hits a mercy ta ken tho, it dir ey been debackles and deevilrey gyaan on aboot da toon, an hits no juist wis noo-a daes it haes ta pit up we hit. ;-))
Ghostrider 12:14, 5 August 2008 (MDT)

The Settlement pages are one of my next major edits. I'm going to go through them and check/sort the links. I fear it's going to be a bigger task than re-formating the inshore waters, but it needs doing.
I have a couple of ideas about how to present the Lerwick Harbour records, and as you suggest, Bressay Shore, Lerwick Shore, Nort Mooth, and Sooth Mooth, sounds good. With a 5th section for non-specified area. I think it could maybe be set out in a table of some sort, so I'll look into that.
I was thinking of moving the Harbour Limits description to a page of its own with the map I made, and linking that to the harbour page, but not sure about that idea now. Maybe it's just best to have the page quite big, with several sections... I'll keep the braincell working on the problem.
Unlikely to get anything done with any of it until next week, after the kids go home.

Re. Shetland Life article. They also did an excellent one last year about the Samba, it was in 2 parts and made very good reading. Don't know if that was available online though. Hopefully they will continue to research stories like the Samba and the Consolation, it's the sort of stuff that keeps an old codger like me interested in their publication. :-)
Robbie 13:53, 5 August 2008 (MDT)

Just realised a little problem with Symbister, which I meant to address ages ago, but forgot... Symbister is the settlement around Symbister Harbour, and because Symbister Harbour isn't mentioned, as such, on OS maps, it was never included in the inshore waters.
I think what I need to do is create a page for Symbister Harbour, leaving Symbister separate as a settlement.
North Voe, is just North Voe, it is separated from the harbour by Saltness.
Now I know why I did so poorly in geography at school :-)
Robbie 14:21, 5 August 2008 (MDT)

Is 'Mildo' an old spelling/altervative spelling, or a likely mis-spelling of 'Milde' just SW of Bergen, or vice versa? I'm looking at two online maps here, both appear to be marking the same place, but there's one with each spelling.

Also, would that be a likely place for a ship load of timber to have been departing from, or at least would it have been a likely departure point in 1793?

All I've got to go on for this place name is the Shetland Archives record on RCAHMS....so I'm not even sure it is in Norway, but the only other place in the world I'm finding called 'Mildo' is in Nigeria, and I'm not thinking a ship load of wood destined for Sligo, Ireland that wrecked on North Yell in 1793 likely came so far. ;-))

Ghostrider 18:33, 20 August 2008 (MDT)

I think Milde in Bergen could be the correct place....I've never seen it spelled "Mildo", but in the 17th - 18th century a lot of placnames had some funny spellings ;-). The place Milde, (originally a farm), dates back to ca 1720, andand it is an area where wood has always been exported from ,,,
I've also thought about if it could be a mis-spelling of "Molde", but the wood trade from here was at it's top about hounded years earlier, then it almost died out for a couple of centuries, (lack of wood - they've cut down too much !!),,,So I think I go for the Bergen alternative, and there are no other places in Norway I can think of that has a name that is nearly similar to your "Mildo", and Shetland is in the road between Bergen and Ireland, so it is very logic...
Cheers, --Oddrun 06:04, 21 August 2008 (MDT)

Thanks for that Oddrun, my geography is hopeless, as always. Online maps seem to be spilt 50/50 in favour of each spelling for the same Bergen location, perhaps a quirk of translation in to English or just some holding on to an older spelling thats long disappeared from use. As its a known wood exporting location it is very likely that it is the "Moldo" the Shetland Archives record refers to, I'll update the page accordlingly.

Ghostrider 07:48, 21 August 2008 (MDT)

Something- Star?

Ghostrider,
Memory has failed me. Da auld een has a name board fae a fishin boat hingin i da wast side o his garage. I tink it's da Evening Star, or maybe the Morning Star. Any idea which one it might be?
I tink it hed somethin ta dö wi a Smith man fae Scalloway, ir meybe Burra.
Onywye, I tink shö wis wracked, an dat's da wye he cam by da name board.
I furyat ta luik at it richt last mont, so dat's whit wye a'm aksin,,,, an da memory isna whit it wint ta be.
Though, I hae a feelin dat da boat's name wis upö da Up-Helly-Aa bill, aboot da time shö sank.
Robbie 15:12, 25 August 2008 (MDT)

Yup, Evening Star wis whit sho wis. Davie Smith fae Scalloway's boat, he is/wis married ta een idda Crieffies a Voe. He hed an earlier boat idda sam nem, sho wis LK 687, da name board is aff a een he hed biggit new late 70's/early 80's an caad da sam, I *tink* sho hed da sam number is the earlier een tuh, bit sumeen idder wid need at verify dat. Baith a dem wir widden boats.
He wisna hed da new een lang whin he hed sum misanter wi ir, I canna noo mind whaur ur whit wye, bit I seem ta tink dey mebbe wir an ayr a fuilishness atil it sumwye. He led da boo o ir a stap onywye is best is I mind, I tink dey managed ta save ir tho, an he hed ir riggit up igyen.
In time whin aw da wrecks ir finally accounted fur, dir mebbe need ta start a section fur "nearly" wrecks, yun een wid be een if Im mindin da richt wye o it an dey did save ir. Den dir wid be da original 'Bard' Lerrik pilot boat it da 'Comet' ran doon is sho cam oota da smaa dock athin a steekit mist, an spret da stem post fae da boards ta twartree boards anunder da wattir-line. Den, wha wis dat oily een it gud hard a port ower shun an ran irsell high an dry sumwye aboot da Bard....I better white, I'm mindin upoa ower mony fok's fuilshness noo.... ;-))
Ghostrider 17:33, 25 August 2008 (MDT)

Page Layout Format Problem.

Ghostrider.
I've been trying to find a solution to the IE7 problem on the Area Lists for shipwrecks.
When I set up the tables I did it in Firefox/Flock, so only recently noticed that on IE7 the wreck names are centred, instead of being 'left justified'. I've had a damned good try at many possible solutions, and am still coming up blank. What mystifies me most is that the "See Also" table below is left justified... Confusing...
I know it's a small irritation, but the centred wreck names looks a bit sloppy, and I'd like to get it sorted, while still keeping the table in the centre, if you see what I mean.

Anyway, if you happen to see some strange edits to format of the wreck lists in the near future,,, just ignore me. ;-)
I may have to end up changing the table format to achieve the appearance I want, but that won't affect any of the content. Just thought I'd let you know what I'm up to before you ask WTF :-))
Now must go put a few Kroner in the computer swear box, as I've just spent about 20 minutes on IE7, at 10% of Firefox speed, and it's doing my head in. To say nothing of what sitting upright is doing for a bad back. ;-)
Robbie 14:12, 30 September 2008 (MDT)

PS.. @ ALL
If anybody can see a solution please advise... :-)
Robbie 14:14, 30 September 2008 (MDT)

I've now downloaded the Opera browser, so can see the format problem more clearly. ;-) Should get it looking better soon. :-) :-)
Robbie 16:17, 1 October 2008 (MDT)

Ooops, I'm only seeing this about the formatting now, I was only online late in the day yesterday. The old laptop fell apart, quite literally, so I spent a good chunk of the day setting up another one to my liking before spending time online. Fool that I am I use IE all the time, so seeing strange formats and sometimes formats changing for no obvious reason is "normal", and I pay little attention. ;-))))

I did notice the Ness wrecks lists had changed to 'left justified' at some point, and was looking much better than the previous centred version. I didn't pay attention to what the other table below it looked like.

Ghostrider 16:37, 1 October 2008 (MDT)

I think I've got it cracked now... The align left looks much better, and using the asterix before the wreck name instead of the br command after will be a bit easier, plus it makes the name stand out more. Only slight snag I have now is that the column width is set by the longest name in each column, but I'll maybe find a way around that although it's not really a serious problem.
I'll update the other directory pages over the weekend, then I'll have to look at all the other pages I used that kind of table on with the damned brunt hound as a browser.

A couple of other little things caught my eye.
Firstly, some of the wreck areas are getting quite a lot of wrecks in them now. Do you think it might be wise to maybe split them up into smaller areas?
And secondly, I think it's about time we archived this talk page,, you're the archive genius here.. ;-)
Robbie 09:09, 3 October 2008 (MDT)

The columns look a lot tidier this way I think, having them all one universal width would be fine too, but even if they have to stand as they are they're not bad, its only a small handful of wrecks that push and occasional column a bit wider than the rest.

One or two pages probably would benefit from being split, as far as I can ascertain virtually all the Ness wrecks are now listed, there can be no more than a single figures yet, if that to unearth, so any split there could probably be considered a final layout.

How best to go about it, I'm not sure, would aiming for pages with roughy equal numbers of wrecks be the way to go, or pages with roughly equal geographical areas?

At a very quick check through the Ness wrecks, the numbers, based on geography comes out like this:

Channerwick & Levenwick: 6

Clumlie to the Mails: 8

Remainder of the North Sea coast south to the Head: 10

Atlantic coast of the Heads, Sumburgh, Scatness & Holms: 16

Quendale: 12

Noss to Rerwick: 7

Bigton: 14

Unspecified Ness Locations: 5

At sea at positions given in miles from NE through S to NW of the Head: 24

Splitting in to three by drawing a line from the Mails to Noss, would give 35 north, 38 south, and 29 at sea/unspecified is about the best I can make of it off the top of the head, but it comes off as a bit clumsy in a geographical sense.

Lerwick is going to be the really difficult one to split, its at a size already it could probably be split, there's about as many again still to be added as already are, but there's no obvious way to take it. Knocking off everything south of the Ness of Sound in to its own section is obvious from a geographical viewpoint, but there's so few there it would make no difference, if there's a dozen in total, thats it.

Ghostrider 12:57, 7 October 2008 (MDT)

Given that there won't be many more to come, unless of course the helicopter crews stay on strike ;-) then maybe the pages are best just left at the size they are. I was just thinking, "what if they get much bigger".
I've been looking at column width formats, and think I may have the answer, but not sure yet as I have to look at the other places I used that damned table as well just in case it will cause problems with that. I'm hoping to find a 'one fits all' solution.
Robbie 13:12, 7 October 2008 (MDT)

One last question before this talk gets archived, does anyone know of a "Wadbister" on Bressay? I've never heard of one, and I can't find one on a map, so I'm ready to blame bad wreck record keepers, but thought I'd best get a second opinion.

Ghostrider 10:55, 8 October 2008 (MDT)

Wadbister is on the east side of Bressay about 2kn ENE from the Ward and just south of the Loch of Grimsetter.
Robbie 11:33, 8 October 2008 (MDT)

Ahh....I see it now! I didn't have the map magnified big enough before for it to be marked. I'd probably not have found it without directions anyway though, its a bit far inland to look for a wreck site. Thankyou.

Ghostrider 13:41, 8 October 2008 (MDT)

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