Talk:Early Packet Services

Shetlopedia - The Shetland Encyclopaedia

This article mentions a ship, Elizabeth wrecked at Lingey near Symbister, in 1793.
Nothing in the Wreck pages about her. Any Info?? I presume "Lingey" means Linga (West Linga possibly).
Robbie 07:37, 13 April 2008 (MDT)

The record isn't clear cut with this, if the date is right, she wrecked on Linga in Bluemull Sound, a Leith registered sloop stranded there on 2nd September 1793, but there's no information concerning her cargo or the nature of her business, to cross check it is the right vessel.

To confuse the matter completely, there's eleven 'Elizabeth' wrecks in total for Shetland, and one RCAHMS entry is clearly pure nonsense, by all appearances they've amalgamated the details of two wrecks in to one entry, but both are down as being sloops, and one is down as a packet boat with mail and passengers. They're dated slightly earlier, 1778-1787, and one at least is attributed to Unst, but some of the records this far back are as far out that you need to at least look at everything in the relevant compass quarter dated a decade either way just to make sure RCAHMS don't have everything entered twice with varying degrees of accuracy.

I'll dig through this as soon as I get a chance and see if I can draw out enough information from the bits and pieces to make a sensible entry. There's a few hundred awaiting adding yet in total, but now the crofting has been put to bed for the moment I'll have another session on them the first chance.

Ghostrider 08:21, 13 April 2008 (MDT)

I thought it was most likely among the "More Confusing" ones on the records. I don't envy your task trying to make sense of some of the records, RCAHMS confused the hell out of me.
There are always going to be wrecks which it is nearly impossible to pin down exactly. All we can do in those cases is enter the best info available, with any possible alternative dates/locataions, and hope that in time somebody may be able to correct the info.
I know that records which are inaccurate, or incomplete, could be viewed as irrelevant. But unless the available information is "Up Front" somewhere like Shetlopedia, then people who may happen to have the vital bit of detail to correct the records will never come forward. This is obvious by looking at RCAHMS. Their records are glaringly wrong in many cases, but because it is almost impossible to correct them, they will continue to be wrong.
Robbie 08:48, 13 April 2008 (MDT)

Any idea what Islandhopper's source was for this article? The problem that's arising here is that I'm beginning to wonder if the vessel 'Elizabeth' which is first mentioned in 1758 is the same vessel 'Elizabeth' that wrecked on Linga in 1793. As the article stands it reads like it was, but RCAHMS have two very definite seperate entries for vessels named 'Elizabeth', one in 1787 and one in 1793, and both are referenced to seperate Shetland Archive records, so should be reliable.

The wreck of 1787 (9th March), was a sloop, registered in Leith, Burns Master, is recorded as a mail packet, which wrecked at Uyeasound, all of the crew and passengers saved.

The wreck of 1793 (2nd Sept.), was also a sloop, also registered in Leith, but Henderson Master, which wrecked on Linga, Bluemull Sound, again all crew saved.

This leaves me wondering whether, if the 1793 wreck was of a mail packet, if a second vessel named 'Elizabeth' was obtained to replace the first one lost in 1787, and it too was lost near Unst in 1793. Or, if the source of the article has simply confused the 1787 wreck of the original, and only 'Elizabeth' which was a mail packet, with the wreck of a similar class of vessel, with the same name, and from the same port, but having nothing to do with the mail packet service, being wrecked in the same general location only 4 1/2 years later.

As something of an aside, there is some suggestion in the records that the 1787 wreck was known in some quarters as 'Elizabeth of Leith' whereas the 1793 wreck was also known in some quarters at 'Elizabeth Packer'. This would tend to support the argument for two seperate vessels, however, it also makes it unhelpful in that a cutter named 'Elizabeth Pacquet' which was operating Leith/Lerwick with general cargo and passengers, wrecked in Seli Geo, Bressay on November 4th 1799, again with all hands being saved.

I've done a lot of head scratching over some very muddled RCAHMS entries over the last few months, but these easily win as the most confused to date.

Ghostrider 10:39, 13 April 2008 (MDT)

Ghostrider,
:-)))
I think we'll just have to add this to Islandhoppers "To Do List".
Hopefully he'll be back soon and can add some light to the situation.
Robbie 11:04, 13 April 2008 (MDT)

Well, yun's the best I can do with what RCAHMS has. With the original 'Elizabeth' apparently being lost in 1787, and another packet boat with 'Elizabeth' in her name being lost in 1799, plus the 1793 'Elizabeth' that there's no proof of having been a packet boat being lost in 1793, it will need Islandhopper's input regarding his source to try and figure out hows and whys of which one is the correct one to link to this article.

Hopefully he's doing well, and will feel like lookin alang shortly to stop himself starting to feel bored.

Ghostrider 14:53, 13 April 2008 (MDT)