User talk:Ghostrider

Shetlopedia - The Shetland Encyclopaedia

Welcome ... ;-) Islandhopper 18:42, 7 June 2007 (MDT)

Thankyou Islandhopper. I've been lurking off and on for some time, and have added one or two small pieces here and there during that time, mostly not managing to remember to log in to do so, so they're almost all credited to my IP address.

I figured now that it was time I went "legit" and added a few more substancial pieces. Still getting my head around navigating the site properly though, and the formatting code for posting. So I'll try and not do too much damage while I do that, and also decide what I should put on this page permanently.

Hi Ghostrider, and welcome.

We're trying to make it easier to navigate the site and for users to add information. I've been working on a new menu for the main page (see: Sandbox/Main_Page) and setting up templates for the users to add information more easily (see the Add your business to Shetlopedia option in the Sandbox menu). I've created one template for businesses, but want to create templates for things (websites, charities, schools, etc). Any suggestions welcome.

Cheers GaryWiki 17:16, 8 June 2007 (MDT)

Soldian

Hello Ghostrider - reloaded the Soldian pics ... you must look for the best you want to use ... ;-)
Tip for the next ones: don't make them too small (in terms of Kbytes) - for using such automated routines like "refreshing original colours" every byte counts ... ;-) Islandhopper 03:59, 10 July 2007 (MDT)

Hi Islandhopper. Thanks for that, they're looking considerably fresher now, the originals all have a very definite "blue" hue to them.

Concerning best sizes etc to work on. Does the dpi at which they're originally scanned at help with that at all? Also, the originals of these were considerably bigger, I just made reduced copies to keep them within a reasonable size for the site, plus having the finished image much larger than as is was losing detail to blurring. However, there's no reason why any future ones can't be kept at the largest size for you to work on if that makes the task easier, then reduce the finished work to a manageable size prior to final posting.

The originals here were scanned at 600 dpi, which produced a 2023 W x 2079 H Pixel size, a 71.3cm W x 73.3cm H actual size, at 28.3 Pixel/cm. With overall sizes variously between 260 and 280 Kb.

The reduced sizes which I uploaded were 432 W x 444 H Pixel size, and 15.2cm x 15.6cm actual size, also at 28.3 Pixel/cm

All of the above is changable, within the overall constraints of the Scanner software, it can theoretically also scan at 1200 and 2400dpi, although I have never tried to use those settings. So if you were to let me know what would be likely to produce scans that would be best compatible with your software, I can do any future scans to that standard. Thanks.

Ghostrider 08:37, 10 July 2007 (MDT)

Well, uploading them here before working we do have the known restrictions: .jpg and 150 kb ... sending them per e-mail first to me there is only one restriction: any attachment (single pic or KB-sum of several pics or zip file) must not exceed 10MB anything bigger goes automatically into the bruck bin; in that case best would be to have them as .bmp, to change them to .jpg just before upload (any interim save of an .jpg reduces quality due to jpg-artefacts ... ;-)
mail ad = firstname.lastname@schottlandportal.de with firstname=Wolfgang and lastname=Schlick ... ;-) Islandhopper 11:43, 10 July 2007 (MDT)

Thanks for that info Islandhopper. By email is probably the smart way to do it, a max of 150 Kb doesn't allow a great deal of scope to make them all that much bigger. As bmp the Kb size increases massively compared to jpg (out of curiosity I saved one of the above originals as a bmp just to see what size it ended up as - it was 12 Mb), so I'll have to do a little checking out of what my options are, and experimenting with the Scanner etc, to keep future scans within the known size limits. I'll hopefully have a few more, probably fishing boats this time, done within the next few days, as and when time allows.

Ghostrider 16:57, 10 July 2007 (MDT)

hello Ghostrider - in case your scanner does allow it try the following settings:

• 16Mio colours
• 200px resolution
• size 125%

for an original which is a bit bigger than a standard postcard these settings produce a pic of 1400px x 1050px at about 4,5MB for a bmp-file (normal range should be 4.2 to 4.9 MB depending on the actual N° of colours in it) ... you are absolutely right bmp needs more capacity than jpg because each individual px with its colour value is saved while jpg builds clusters of colours and saves a "mental map" to arrange these clusters - That' why these typical jpg artefacts do appear becomming more and more with each saving routine ... ;-)

In case your original is a printed thing and not a colour fotograph and your scanner allows a bit more, than use the settings as above and chose from the options "NO sharpening" and "clear moiré" or "NO moiré" or called something like this (depending on on your machine).

The test pic below is half of the cover of the Town Hall brochure, a coarsely rastered print, scanned with settings as above, then reduced to 50% in width and converted with only 10% compression to a jpg less than 100KB (i. I wanted to see what flag is on top of the TH, ii. with a bit of work we can bring it down to some 60KB without any loss in size or quality than here).

Lerwick TH from the printed brochure; size of the original scanned cut out: 10.5cm x 14.7cm; all settings as above; 4.35 MB bmp; 93.7 KB jpg

Hi Islandhopper, thanks for that further info. My Scanner is nothing fancy, just an average "general purpose" home use type machine, and a few years old at that. The Colours and Resolution settings as per the above should be straightforward I think, if I'm recalling correctly. Not sure if I have an option to change sizes, but will check on that. Thanks.

Ghostrider 13:16, 11 July 2007 (MDT)

Casting Peats :)

Just for fun really, but have you seen this old picture, and how the hell did they manage it.????
http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo1OiJwZWF0cyI7&pg=248
It's easy with modern photography, but, in 1967,,,,
Robbie

Robbie, I do think the miracle is just burried in the words "with three in the air". Robert Leask was working so fast ... not the camera which did just one shot ;-) I'm just wondering what's the bigger miracle ... :-D Islandhopper 03:13, 11 July 2007 (MDT)

1833 wreck Foula

I've found an article about a brig called Sarah from Belfast wrecked on Foula on September 11th 1833.
Best match I can find on RCHAMS is CERES?, which was from Belfast and dates nearly match (ish).
Any ideas about this one?????
I'll read more of the story once I get home but thought I'd get you thinking :-)
Robbie 09:02, 11 August 2007 (MDT)

Bingo, Robbie, looks like a mix of two different vessels: RCAHMS has the Ceres (with question mark) on her way from Belfast to Drontheim in ballst in September 1833 ... Foula History website has a Cerese bound from Belfast bound for Leith in April 1834. May bee that the 1833 boat is the missing Sarah because the Foula story about the Cerese looks trustable with regard to the unsual event quoted. See here ;-) Islandhopper 09:42, 11 August 2007 (MDT)

Additional info by Shetland Archive ref. Ceres dating May 2007 are not added to RCAHMS up to now!Islandhopper 09:53, 11 August 2007 (MDT)

Larn & Larn only have the Ceres in 1833, with similar information to RCAHMS. No other wrecks in the preceeding and following few years are attributed to Foula, the only 1834 entries are for 10/11 January when the follwing three were all driven ashore in a SE gale at unspecified points around Shetland, the St. Nicolai, St. Petersburg to Liverpool, eight crew drowned, the Nestor, Copehnagen to Lisbon, and the Johanna, a Finn, bound for Portugal. (Source Lloyd's List).

The only Sarah, or variations thereof, I'm pulling up anywhere on the west side, apart from the two already listed, is the Sara, a barque, registered in Leith, Captain Brown, wrecked on Papa Stour December 24th 1710, crew saved.

The info Larn & Larn have for the Ceres is: Registered Belfast, in passage Belfast to Unknown, wooden hulled sailing vessel. Wrecked Foula August 27th 1833. Their sources are Lloyd's List (No 6,890: 15.10.1833 (Tue), and Board of Trade Returns (SCS Wk 1833 Appx 7 p304), and quote the following from same.

"Lerwick 14.09. '....of Belfast, outward bound, was totally lost upon Fowlan Island, west side of the Shetlands, 27th ult. Only one of the crew saved"

Concerning the story on the Foula website about the survivors escape, it is very very similar to the story I have heard my grandmother tell countless times, but in relation to the sole survivor from the Elvira in 1837, who supposedly also climbed the Noup in darkness, but the Noup of Noss, Scousburgh, not the Noup of Foula.

Maybe two sole survivors had very similar lucky escapes from wrecks either side of the same stretch of water, within less than 5 years, but given the strinking similarities I'm wondering which of the two the genuine story belongs to.

Ghostrider 14:35, 11 August 2007 (MDT)

I see ... Nevertheless, what makes the quote on the Foula website so interesting is the simple fact that it goes back to a contemporary source: “Journal of an Expedition to Shetland in June, July and August 1834” by Edward Charlton. It is difficult do believe that the story went across the isles and was asociated to a different place within a few months (wreckage April 1834 - external source by local information June-August 1834). In 1837 (Elvira) it might have spread and than been adopted to the Noup of Noss ... ???

A different prob seems to be that we have to be carefull with regard to the problem of "self- and auto-references". That's to say: Within the actual situatin the RCAHMS sometimes refer directly to Larn & Larn (with or without mentioning it), sometimes they refer to Shetland Museum & Archive or to Whitacker refering again to Larn & Larn. So - in theory - three different quotes may all be more or less based in one source ... in this case against one local tradition and one so far unchecked external source but the latter providing not only the place of wreckage but more additional placenames, personal names and events with regard to the subject. What I only want to point out, is the fact that we have to be very carefull i) with potential quotes, ii) with the publishing of "facts" where we do have no chance to check the details ... ;-)

Two years ago, Whitackers publications were something like a bible for RCAHMS ... now they are questioning many of his entries ... :-) In all cases where we don't have clear third source evidence we should look at RCAHMS as a "young" project in progress. It is difficult but I would like to say: Where we do have a strong local tradition plus a contemporary external source we do have to question RCAHMS and Whitacker and Larn&Larn simply they all refer to LLoyd's ... but what happened to unregistered boats, boats in ballast or with a load without security coverage???

I don't know actually but I have the strong feeling that we have to be carefull moving on the edge between reporting in an ecyclopaedia style and entering original research ... ;-) Islandhopper 15:36, 11 August 2007 (MDT)

It's a difficult one, far too much of the available information on the majority of the wrecks, one way or another, leads back to Lloyds and/or Board of Trade records, but there seems to be so few other records available. The information used by RCAHMS from Shetland Archives, seems in a significant number of cases to be dervied from the personal papers of certain inviduals of the day, usually lairds etc. Which, while you'd hope was reasonably accurate, were, I suspect in most cases never intended by the writer to act as much more than records for their own personal information.

Larn & Larn do in some cases use additional sources, such as newspaper archives, war records etc, but those are unfortunately in the minority. Where there is doubt, disagreement between sources etc concerning details, I have lately been stating in any entries made that certain information is in dispute and giving the alternative oprtions. I'm not sure what else can be done with ones like these.

Concerning the Foula/Noss Noups stories, all things considered I am inclined to believe both are generally based in truth. Both have enough components in their own right to suggest in all liklihood they were two seperate, but surprisingly similar events, however both are not without certain holes either.

In the Foula case, assuming the quoted date of Edward Charlton's work is correct, and he obtained his information from within Foula, or at least from someone who was in Foula at the time of the incident, and didn't just recount a "gossip" type account which no doubt would have been available anywhere in Shetland within a week or so, then his account is largely undisputable. The only point I'd question is the part of his description concerning the light and climate, and as we don't know when in April the incident took place, he may or may not be right. Were it early April, then yes, his description would ring relatively true, however if in the latter part of April, the hours of darkness here are already getting short, it's still twilight around 11pm and dawn breaks between 3 and 4am, quite a short window for the ship to come ashore in darkness, and for the survivor to climb a cliff before dawn. Likesise, to describe the climate as "winter" in the second half of April is at best 50/50, some days are, but an equal number are quiet springlike.

In the case of Noss, the story I've always heard originated with my great, great grandmother who was resident in Noss at the time the wreck occured and met the survivor while he was there, the story in turn was handed down via her daughter to her grand-daughter, my grandmother, from whom I heard it. Obviously such things are open to question due to the failings of human memories etc, but I have also heard the same story recounted by another independent source, and as far as the portion releveant to the story I've always been told went, the details were the same, so I think it's reasonable to assume there's truth in it somewhere.

It differs from the Foula version insofar as the survivor was up a mast acting as a lookout at the time of the grounding, the ship heeled over on contact and the mast came to rest against the cliff face of the Noup. He was able to climb up off the mast and on to the cliff and somehow find his way safely to the top of the cliff in pitch darkness, the cliff, like the Foula one is generally not considered climbable, and is of very crumbly gravelly rock.

It was said to be a Sunday morning (which tallies with the dates given in the records), which involved in those days effectively compulsory church attendance, so folks got up earlier to have enough time to tend to their morning chores with livestock etc and still have time to walk to the church. Being October that meant before dawn and lamps had to be lit indoors, so the survivor was able to see these through the rooflights from his vantage point and head towards them. The first house he knocked on the door of to request assistance, was answered by a lady, who upon seeing in the half-light of a lamp through the opened doorway, his bloodstained and dirty condition, and his torn clothes from his climb, got such a shock she slammed the door in his face and went in to a state of panic.

Regardless of the accuracy of the Noss version, it's not something that should be added to the Elvira page I don't think. The only verification I know of, is the independent recount I mentioned above, which may still exist in some dusty archive of Radio Shetland. They broadcast an account about 15 to 20 years ago, who by though I completely forget, so unless anyone is prepared to trawl through Radio Shetland archives, I fear that's where it'll stay. While it was a perfect recount of the wreck and the survivor's story, as I've always heard it told, it then unfortunately went on to mostly destroy it's own credibility by stating the wreck of the Elvira then drifted off again and ended up beaching on Rerwick Sand and was known locally as "the sugar ship".

This was a classic case of again confusing two wrecks, "the sugar ship" was actually the Gesina which wrecked on St Ninian's Isle 30 or so years later. This has been proven from old records in the Archives detailing how a large number of local men and boys were rounded up and taken to the Tolbooth Jail in Lerwick for allegedly "looting" the sugar etc in the cargo. During their short stay, or so the story goes they almost burned down the Tolbooth, but that's another story ;-)

Ghostrider 20:16, 11 August 2007 (MDT)

Hi there and thanks for your welcome!! But I have a complaint ;-) If you call Shetland in March bleak then you should have a look at the pics on my website!!!! 11 sunny days - what else can one ask for? ;-) krissie

Sandsayre Pier

I haven't added any link to John Bruce on this page. My info gives him as: John Bruce "The Elder" 1798 - 1885.
But I thought as the "Laird Guru" ;-) you might already have planned a page for him, and as there are so many Bruces you might have a different way to describe him. :-)
Cheers,
Robbie 01:52, 6 January 2008 (MST)

@ Robbie,

There's no page been created for him yet, but I have him down on the list of Bruce Lairds as John Bruce (3), the son of the same name and next in line was apparently, and predictably known as "The Younger". There is a start made on a page for him as he was the first ZCC Convenor, and what I did there was title the page John Bruce (4) but describe him and 'John Bruce the Younger' on the page itself. As far as I can gather from what I've read the 'Elder' and 'Younger' designations seem to have come about due to the older one living to such a ripe old age, and turning over more and more of the day to day responsibility for things as the years progressed to the son, that folk were having to contend with two of them for quite a while and distinction needed to be made. I've not found absolute confirmation of that's how it occured, so won't include it on a page until I do, but reading between the lines about them that's the impression you're given.

On a side subject, the current Laird probably should be added to the page list of Bruce Lairds, it's up to R.H.W. at the moment. Is his name Robert Bell? I'm sort of 90% sure, but not totally.

Ghostrider 08:25, 6 January 2008 (MST)

I'm not really sure about the current dynasty at Sandlodge. Last I had contact with them, a couple of years ago, there were 2 Bells living there. George Bell, the father (I believe), who occupied the small cottage at the east side of Sandlodge house. And Robert Bell, only met him once or twice, a much younger chap, perhaps about 40 now, who lived in part of the big house.
Robbie 09:26, 6 January 2008 (MST)

Harem

Hei, is all the girls in your harem named Elizabeth ??  ;-))), Cheers,--Oddrun 13:45, 13 April 2008 (MDT)

A harem?!? LOL I wish! ;-))) It's beginning to feel like it though, there doesn't look to be many on the RCAHMS page, but it seems to grow as you write them up. They're all done now anyway.

I think the lesson here, is if you must name your boat 'Elizabeth', keep well away from Shetland, especially Unst.

Time now to start work on that harem, all names accepted. ;-)))

Ghostrider 14:42, 13 April 2008 (MDT)

For Future Reference

15th October 1820 'Freemason'. Ship of Lerwick, Leslie, Master. Foundered at the entrance to Greetness Voe bound from Peterhead to Greetness with glass & materials for Sumburgh Head Lighthouse which was then being erected. One man was saved.

19th January 1864 'Royal Victoria'. Ship of Liverpool, Captain Thomas Leslie. Foundered Latitude. 63°N Longitude 13°W Sunderland to Calcutta with coal. Nineteen saved, Thirteen perished, one lifeboat with Captain and some of the crew came to Scatness some of the crew dead and one badly frostbitten. Captain Leslie and five of the crew interred at Dunrossness Churchyard. A bell was presented by Captain Leslie's parents and put to Sumburgh Head to be used as a fog bell but on the establishment of a fog signal in 1906 (which was discontinued during 1987) it was removed and hung in the Parish Church at Dunrossness, where it still remains.

June - Main Feature

I think, given that this time of year is important to crofters, that the Crofting page should be our main feature for June.
Since you wrote the article, would you like to have a go at fitting something in? .... Please. :-)
I'll come up with changes to the other features.

Cheers,
Robbie 09:46, 30 May 2008 (MDT)

I should be able to put something together I think, it'll probably be tomorrow now though the way things are going. I've spent a the last hour fiddling around trying to confirm the email address I have on here, to be able to post this.

Any thoughts on a picture to go with it? I've not checked over what we've got, but memory would suggest most of the older pictures are later in the season ones, meadow hay coles in late August, Skrew yards in around October, winter jobs etc. Something earlier in the season with either just all the rigs still growing or a few of the first ryegrass coles up would be more in keeping with this time of year. Or of course, we could go completely modern and have one of a silage rig being cut, but I'm not sure if there's anything like that on the site.

Ghostrider 15:25, 30 May 2008 (MDT)

P.S. I do have a picture of a crowd of men and a boy standing beside a newly acquired hay baler in the South Scousburgh area circa 1965/66. I wonder who he might be. ;-))

Du peerie trooker! Whaur did du dig dat een up fae?
Wid be fine ta see, if a'm no luikin too ill laek :-)))
An meybe du'll hae ta tink afore du uploads it if da Wiki'd CopyrightPolice micht tink dat hit's anidder image dat we hivna gotten laeve ta hae upö da site. Yun erseholes wid need ta ken what dir spaekin aboot afore dey wirk sh**e.
Robbie 16:51, 30 May 2008 (MDT)

Weel,I tink hits dee, if Im mindin richt whit Im herd sed a time past. I duh mind im bein taen, bit I wis juist an ankle biter sittin athin a peerie hurlie shair it da time, so wis ower peerie ta richtly ken wha fok wis mesell. Midder tuk hit, her an me wis comin in bye fae sumwye, an sho wis kerryin a camera wi ir. Da crood it wrocht tagidder it dat time wir staundin teetin ower dat first auld baler dey got, hit wis just newly cum aff idda boat, an dae hailed ir ta tak a pictir a dem wi hit. Fur a mercy haein ta hurl me up ower da brug wis shurly tocht ta be gyaan ta be ower muckle wark, ur I micht weel a been upoa it tuh. Is it wis I wis left doon it da side idda rod an oota sicht.

I got a grip idda box a auld photos fae wirris da idder dae, an yun's een it's cassen up among dem sae far. I'll scan an uplod im neest I hae da Scanner set up, he's kinda fuzzy a places, hit wis juist an auld box brownie camera fae the 20's ur 30's sho hed wi ir, bit da fok can be seen and kent richt enoych. Dir een ur twa idder eens I'll duh da same wi dat micht be fur uis on heer, auld hame aboot views an een ur twa postcairds.

Ill helt sit athin yun Copyright eerip, if he saes ocht aboot dem Ill set midder upoa im ta showe ower da bruks oh im efter im riven im asindry. ;-))))

Ghostrider 17:30, 30 May 2008 (MDT)

Thanks for that feature. Perfect. Tusen Takk :)
Robbie 16:46, 31 May 2008 (MDT)

Nae budder. For once it was a case of figuring how much to leave out to fit the space than think of something to fill it up.

The crofting page and the pictures we do have, I think are okay for now, it should give anyone interested the rudimentary basics of it all, but in time, I think the whole thing deserves much more work. The page is big enough for comfort I think as is, yet it only just touches on most of the subjects, seperate individual pages leading from an Index page, dedicated to the various periods in history, as well as of course individual pages for things like livestock, crops, tools and implements, machinery and so on are going to have to be the way to go longer term. There's an immense amount of information that could and should be recorded before the subject is done full justice to. In time it'll hopefully come together, if I ever reach the end of the wrecks. It seems everytime time I go looking I fin yet mair, I wiss finnin wid gyaan aboot da banks been as aesy. ;-))))

Ghostrider 17:05, 31 May 2008 (MDT)

Dunna ken if du saw dis,,,

I wis winderin if dir wis mair o a story ahent it? Da 100 year auld bit.

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2008/08/08/times-past-8/

Robbie 12:18, 15 August 2008 (MDT)

I wisna seen yun. I tend ta read yun 'Times Past' things maist ooks, hits a mony a time da maist interesting bit idda hale paper. ;-)) Im missed yun een though sum wye ur anidder.

Not a story Im come across afore idder wye I dunna think, an dir naethin idda wreck records, which is no surpising if nae misanter tuk da boat hersell it da sam time.

I'll keep it in mind though, you trip ower bits a stories a sum very unlaekly places sumtimes, whin hits idda mind you tend ta notice hit better.

Ghostrider 16:16, 15 August 2008 (MDT)

November features

Ghostrider, can you come up with something for the main feature ???
Robbie thought about "Fair Isle", but that went to h*** with the picture thing....., and he has no ideas, neither have I. It looks like my braincell has gone totally slow, ;-)))
I saw that Morula will do something "mini" about the Sheepdog, that is great ! I've thougt that Catriona Macdonald can fit into the "Peerie Spotlight", as she is giving conserts in Shetland in November.....,but apart for that....nothing ;-(
Hopefully you can come up with something ;-)
Cheers, --Oddrun 00:26, 30 October 2008 (MDT)

I've been thinking, but I've not come up with much either. Looking through what we've got for November's past and present, Thomas Fraser might have been a possible, with the festival being held in November, but I know nothing about him and his music, and there's not much on his page either. As we've just used Jack Sandison/L.G.M and Catriona McDonald, possibly another music related one would have been OTT anyway though.

A pity about Fair Isle, it would have been fine for a feature. Maybe another time though. Any of the smaller isles would make a good feature, Foula, Papa Stour, Skerries etc, but they'd all need a lot better pages before it could be worthwhile.

The only other thing I'm seeing is the MTB explosions happened at the North Ness in November 65 years ago, and the MTB base was established (or the boats arrived anyway) in the previous November. Could be some sort of feature might be had out of that? This is your department though, not mine, I know the North Ness well enough, and recognise an MTB when I see one, but that's about the limits of my knowledge on the subject.

There's enough info on the related pages to make it worthwhile I think, the only fly in the ointment though is that the Clarke page, which would be default become part of it, still has photos on it of questionable copyright. The gun one came off Wikimedia Commons I think, so is probably "okay", the MTB one is off some naval museum site though if I remember correctly, and probably should be checked out.

Ghostrider 15:50, 30 October 2008 (MDT)

Well,,,,,OK,,,,,I will see what I can do about that tomorrow night ;-)))...you kicked back the ball there ;-)))
Cheers, --Oddrun 16:18, 30 October 2008 (MDT)

November seems to have been a quiet month down the centuries unless for the weather, the only other thing I was finding was plenty of shipwrecks. None of them were anything startling though, and going back to wrecks again so soon would probably have been overkill anyway.

James W. Irvine might make a feature of some sort, November would have been somewhat appropriate seeing as he's to get that Saint Olaf's Medal, but there doesn't seem to be much specific details of when its happening etc yet, to make much of a write up of. His page is a bit thin on the ground as well, but a possible for a mini feature for December maybe??

Ghostrider 16:59, 30 October 2008 (MDT)