User talk:Robbie

Just for fun

Trowie informs me that she now has 19,101 edits to her credit on Shetlopedia.
She's still not working hard enough, typical Norwegian, because I've got 19,144.
LOL
Robbie 15:13, 17 December 2010 (MST)

Iain Taylor Campbell

Raw-B, do you mind Iain Taylor Campbell minister in Dunrossness? He is wan of my missing councillors. He's still alive, I'm trying to contact him.

Merry Xmas! JAStewart 12:40, 24 December 2010 (MST)

Sorry James, I can't remember anything about him, although I have heard the name.

And Merry Christmas to you too. :)
Robbie 17:10, 24 December 2010 (MST)

Fish Landing

Robbie, you might benefit with a Fish Landing Template - the one with the yellow header which has all the landing years. It'd save you having to update 10 pages, you could just update the one.

JAStewart 17:53, 30 December 2010 (MST)

Oscar Charlie

Can you please explain to me why you are so convinced that OC did not arrive until 1985?? Every one of her crew I have spoken to, including Captain Gordon Mitchell, who set up the Sumburgh SAR operation, has confirmed that she was there from the beginning. But please provide any info to the contrary as it would certainly effect my research...

Going to stick my nose in here... ;-)

From the site linked at the bottom of the Coastguard Helicopter's page:

"An S-61N operated by Bristow Helicopters Ltd first took up service at Sumburgh in November 1983. (The contract actually started on 1 December 1983). The identity of this helicopter is currently not known. This example was replaced by G-BDOC 'Oscar Charlie', which became operational on 4th April 1985 after arriving at the station on the previous day. "

From my own memory, which I'll readily admit is highly fallible, and it is over 25 years ago. I seem to recall that initially a "Coastguard" helicopter per se didn't exist, rather Bristow had the contract to provide a Search & Rescue service for the Coastguard. Which in parctice meant that they had trained crews, and at least two choppers from their Sumburgh fleet kitted out to be able to have winches etc fitted, and that the appropriate winches etc were stored in the hanger ready to be fitted quickly to whichever was the most available chopper when a call came in. G-BDOC *may* well have been one of those fleet choppers that was used, or the one that was used most often, I don't know, but if it was, it was primarily based at Sumburgh for the same work as the rest of the fleet, its use for Search & Rescue was secondary and "as required".

From '85 would seem to ring true for when the contract was upgraded to include the provision of a dedicated fully and permanently fitted out SAR shopper in Coastguard colours, and G-BDOC was the one that Bristow assigned to be fitted out for that.

Don't quote me on any of this, as like I said time and memory and all that, but I certainly seem to have a reasonably clear recollection of there being a period when you had no idea whether a Bristow 61 flying over you was a regular crew change of a SAR callout, and of choppers in Bristow livery only on training flights all round the banks at the Ness.

If I'm remembering any of this correctly, it might shed some light on an explanation why in fact G-BDOC being the SAR from '83 and from '85 are both technically correct, if indeed she was the main chopper used for the work '83-'85 on a "supply with crew and winch as necessary" type contract, then was upgraded to a full SAR Coastguard colours machine from the '85 contract onwards.

Ghostrider 05:24, 24 May 2011 (MDT)

As usual I stand to be corrected, but too many aviation links indicate that OC didn't arrive in Sumburgh until '85.
I had originally accepted OC as the 'start' machine on the contract, but this was called into doubt by others, and the afore mentioned links.
Also, I was working at Aberdeen airport in 83-84, and OC was regularly there,,, I wish I could find my old pictures to prove that, but they're in a box somewhere in Shetland.
I have many friends who were employed by Bristow from the start of the contract, and before. I'll do a bit of asking and see what I can come up with. BTW, none of them were pilots, since they just flew a machine and never knew what the registration was,, it was only the engineering staff that ever kenw which aircraft was where.

But, as always on Shetlopedia, I'll rest my case, since I'm wrong 99% of the time anyway.
I'll revert the rollback, until I find proof.
Cheers,
Robbie 15:11, 24 May 2011 (MDT)

Thanks, this is all very interesting! The description of seeing choppers over head and not knowing if they were on a scheduled or SAR flight is interesting - could this have been BA choppers rather than Bristow? I have would really like to post for your information an extract from the book "Leading from the Front - Bristow Helicopters the First 50 Years" by Andrew Healey, Tempus Publishing Ltd., 2003. p184. - but I'm not sure if that would break the copyright rules, even if it is referenced?? To me it clearly states that they upgraded a dedicated helicopter between Aug-Dec 1983 with state of the art rescue equipment (eg. auto-hover), for starting the SAR contract in Dec 1983. However it does not specifically mention OC (or the Coastguard livery) and if there are any doubts I would like to explore them! Certainly other helicopters have been used over the years - most obvious is OC's stand by G-BDLC (Lima Charlie), used in the Green Lily rescue. I also noticed just last week that the helicopter used in the Boy Andrew incident wasn't OC, as I had been led to believe! Presumably OC and LC were both out of action as the photos show G-BBVA, still in her Bristow livery. I believe she is now based on the South Coast of England as Coastguard SAR. The Stronoway chopper G-BIMU has also stood in, most recently during the CHC changover to the S-92s. On the subject of pilots knowing what aircraft they're flying, I find this statement to be a bit sweeping for comfort! "since they just flew a machine and never knew what the registration was,, it was only the engineering staff that ever kenw which aircraft was where." Apart from anything else, the registration is used when contacting air traffic control!!! And in the same way that you would remember what cars you drive on a regular basis, pilots know their aircrafts; the helicopter pool simply wasn't THAT big! Would be brilliant to hear more OC info....

Ah, nope! I may be mistaken on many things, but BAH and Bristow liveries of that era were very easily recognised apart. Side view BIH was essentially a white chopper, Bristow a two tone red over white.

As a potential way to settle what the truth is on this, I'd suggest that maybe a visit to the Archives and go through the back numbers of the 'Times' from around and prior to the times when the contract first started in '83 and when it changed in '85 could be as productive as any. I'd be almost sure they'd have had pretty full reports on it at the time, as I seem to recall during the five years between the Elinor Viking rescue when the value of such a service was proven, and it actually being provided, the issue remained quite high profile on and off.

No offence to any author in particular, but when it comes to books, especially those written some time after the fact, their accuracy can be very variable. In my experience, having waded my way through more written accounts than I care to think about, trying to compile the shipwrecks section on here, IMHO no single written account of anything should be relied on 100%. A second independent source is virtually essential before you can say with any certainty what the facts were, multiple independent sources are all the better. The 'Times' back numbers, while I'm not saying they're perfect in their reporting by any means either, are at least an independent source, which was written as the events happened, and I can't think of anything better to use as a cross reference for "facts" published elsewhere.

Ghostrider 06:55, 25 May 2011 (MDT)

I quite agree about cross referencing! I've found a LOT of contradictory info in my research into OC so far. Which I find quite strange considering that these incidents must be well documented in official reports?? Am awaiting incident reports from Shetland Coastguard on some of the notable rescues and will take your advice and head for the Archives tomorrow... Whilst I'm here... Re. the Shetlopedia Braer report - there were only 2 men winched back on to the Braer: Pollution Control Officer Jim Dickson and Winchman Friedie Manson. That came from the horse's mouth - if you can call Jim a horse! I phoned to check because I had also read a few variations on this. And I'm still to have the number of people who were onboard the Boy Andrew when she was towed clear confirmed...! Any takers??

The Braer page was one of the first ones done on here, before I got talked in to taking on the wrecks, so I don't know where the info came from, but I'm assuming for the most part it was the MAIB report....and while they're usually about as good as it gets, they're not infallible either. I'll take a look at it though, and fix that.

The Boy Andrew, the best info I have is that there were four onboard during towing, her Skipper Ernest Ritchie, who'd stayed onboard her when she grounded, the chopper had put onboard his brother who was the mate (first name not recorded in what I have), an un-named crewmember from the Altaire, and the chopper winchman Dave Ellis. When it was obvious she was going to go under the lifeboat had to take the long way round to avoid the tow and by the time they got alongside she was in by the head and listing to starboard to the wheelhouse, they managed to grab the two Boy Andrew crewmen and the Altaire's crewman, but the wreck was going under and heeling so fast that they ran out of time to get Dave Ellis and he ended up in the sea between the fast disappearing wreck and the lifeboat. The chopper (I see its G-BBVA right enough, didn't realise that before either) picked him up. Again the Times would be a worthwhile cross reference, I remember there being a fairly detailed report in the paper at the time. They were even so "impressed" with the incident that they used a picture (painting??) of the scene for the illustration on the 1990 Times calendar.

Ghostrider 09:58, 25 May 2011 (MDT)