Talk:1592

Did this not happen in 1593? I don't know why I think that though, don't have a source JAStewart 10:50, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

Well, if you click on the William Sinclair link, you will see my source....,but a Shetlinker thinks that it happened in 1539....maybe he has mis-spelled 1593...;-)
--Oddrun 11:26, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

There are 3 things in life which cannot be trusted to be accurate:
1) Any written publication.
2) Archives of any kind.
3) Any date.
Grant's County Families has typos, just as we do, but at least debate can straighten it out. :-)
Robbie 11:45, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

OK, I think I've got it now...Grant's County Families must have made a typo...the battle was in 1529....I have thought it was wrong when I read 1592, because the guy died in 1539....so I've just thought it was a hounderd year wrong..., I did not check other sources for the battle..
The year shall be 1529 !!!
--Oddrun 11:49, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

From what I'm seeing the powers that be cannot entirely agree on when Summersdale occured.

Grant's version is what's on the page, saying 18th May 1592. However, it would seem that Grant is most probably wrong, or its a typo. If you read the remainder of the same paragraph in Grant's book, it heavily calls in to question that 1592 is right, as it says William Sinclair died in 1539. Unfortunately Bayanne doesn't seem to go back far enough to confirm the date. Either way one date is wrong, being dead 59 years would kinda be a handicap on a battlefield.

On the flip side, our Shetlinker friend claims, "This pardon or respite, issued to various Shetlanders and Orcadians, was issued on 19 September 1539 (Register of the Privy Seal of Scotland, ii, no. 3151). The battle of Summerdale, also referred to, took place in 1529." Which is backed up by the RCAHMS entries "(HY 345 104). Site of Battle (NR) Between the forces of the Earl of Caithness and Sir James Sinclair AD 1529. OS 6" map, Orkney, 2nd ed., (1903)", and "On May 18th, 1529, the Earl of Caithness and Lord Sinclair, whose forces had invaded Orkney by sea, were beaten at '..a place call'd Summersdale ...' by the 'People of the Country', under Sir James Sinclair. J Wallace. An Account of the Islands of Orkney, London. (1700)".

And, The ADHS, being the Arts and Humanities Research Council, in conjunction with ADS, being the Archaeology Data Service, have a paper written by a P J Ashmore, "Excavations at Summersdale, Orkney, by F G Wainwright in July 1960", complied from manuscript notes of the excavation.

"Local tradition was that the ten to a dozen mounds at Summersdale, in the parish of Stenness, Orkney, were the burial places of those who fell in the battle between men of Orkney led by James Sinclair and the forces of the Earl of Caithness in 1529."

Obviously the respite mentioned took place at a later date, and so far we just have the Shetlinker's word for when it was, as I'm not finding anything about it online.

Maybe the way to go with this is move it again to May 18th 1529, and begin the paragraph with something like "The Battle of Summersdale took place, which for their part in, a respite was later issued to....."

Ghostrider 12:30, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

Oops, edit conflict.

@ Oddrun. Seems we've reached the same conclusion, NO source can be taken as absolute. ;-)

Ghostrider 12:31, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

An article on the Battle of Summersdale would be good. I've never really understood what the feud was about, or indeed if there is any pattern to the various inter-Sinclair shenanigans over the years. Seem to remember something ultra tragic about there being a fatality on the northern side due to a victor being accidentally killed by his mother who thought him to be from Caithness as he'd donned the fancier clothes of one of the fallen invaders. Is that attested or just a rural myth?
EM 16:05, 12 July 2009 (MDT)